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MQSeries.net Forum Index » IBM MQ Installation/Configuration Support » Should vendors redistribute the MQ Client?

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Should vendors include the redistributable client image with our program downloads?
Yes - I want a single download for any vendor product and don't want to make a second download for the MQ Client
57%
 57%  [ 4 ]
No - I want to be able to download the redistributable MQ Client from the same page as the vendor product but don't want it in the same package
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
No - I would prefer to download the redistributable MQ Client from the IBM page so I know it's the most up-to-date. Just give me a link from the vendor product page
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
No - I do not want to use the redistributable MQ Client - I want to always have an installed MQ Client
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 7
Author Message
hughson
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Should vendors redistribute the MQ Client? Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1914
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand

I've been having a play with the redistributable client recently provided with MQ V8.0.0.4. I've ruled out much gain in trimming the size of the package using the genmqpkg script (see https://mqgem.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/redistributable-client-for-mq/) but it could still be useful to supply the MQ Client with vendor package downloads like ours. I'd be interested whether anyone out there has an opinion on that, hence the poll.

I've tried to keep this generic, so it's useful for all vendors out there, and I'm sure you'll all have comments to make about this too. Ultimately as vendors we want our products to be as easy for you guys to use as possible, so bring on the opinions!

Cheers
Morag
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fjb_saper
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20696
Location: LI,NY

I note that you did not address the case of compatibility. Especially in Java.
If you're stuck with an application running on java 1.5 you absolutely cannot use the latest MQ Client as the minimum java level would be 1.7...
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zpat
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5849
Location: UK

It's not the download that's the pain, it's the installation.

What IBM (and maybe other vendors) don't seem to appreciate is the hassle involved with MQ client installation on desktops.

Most desktop users do not have admin rights, but if you try to install any MQ product without it - all sorts of problems can occur.

I personally don't want desktop support staff with no MQ knowledge to be messing about with any MQ product. Also they won't install anything that is not on their approved list which can add months to the process.

So a single install, without needing admin rights, is the best possible outcome.
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Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error.
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

It's generally going to be more reliable for the application team to build and include the redistributable client.

This allows them to test for very specific versions, and as my esteemed colleague zPat says - much easier for end users to install.

They may want or need to include an install option to *not* do that, based on customer requirements - or at least allow their application to point to an MQ installation that they didn't provide.
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hughson
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1914
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand

zpat wrote:
It's not the download that's the pain, it's the installation.

What IBM (and maybe other vendors) don't seem to appreciate is the hassle involved with MQ client installation on desktops.
Maybe IBM does now appreciate this, since they have made you this redistributable client which is just an unzip, no install.
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hughson
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1914
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand

fjb_saper wrote:
I note that you did not address the case of compatibility. Especially in Java.
If you're stuck with an application running on java 1.5 you absolutely cannot use the latest MQ Client as the minimum java level would be 1.7...
I'm happy to add an extra option to the poll if you tell me what you want it to say. It probably didn't occur to me as, happily, all our tools are written in 'C'

Cheers
Morag
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fjb_saper
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20696
Location: LI,NY

hughson wrote:
fjb_saper wrote:
I note that you did not address the case of compatibility. Especially in Java.
If you're stuck with an application running on java 1.5 you absolutely cannot use the latest MQ Client as the minimum java level would be 1.7...
I'm happy to add an extra option to the poll if you tell me what you want it to say. It probably didn't occur to me as, happily, all our tools are written in 'C'

Cheers
Morag


The thing is: you may have a fabulous tool, and your latest tool update is still java 1.5 compatible(jars). Now if you include the latest MQ client you are in fact mandating java 1.7. Which the customer may not want to upgrade to at this time, or even get an authorization to install (aix anybody?) from their change management.

On the other hand you don't want to limit yourself to an older version of the mq client if you are say running java 1.8 or MQ 8 (jre is IBM java 1.7)...

So giving a separate download, with instructions on how to use lower level libraries may not be a bad thing to do...

So additional poll row With separate (java)3rd party libs (MQ) and instructions

It is fortunate that there is so little change to the interface in java so that most products will work with all the currently supported versions of MQ without code change ... unless you are trying to take advantage of the newer functionality...


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hughson
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1914
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand

I don't know if you're aware, but the redistributable client (and in fact the normal SupportPac download and install clients) are separate for C and Java clients. So using the latest version of the C client has no bearing on which set of jars you use for another app. Also, if memory serves, the Java client has been redistributable for a while (although maybe not back as far as 1.5).

I'm not sure I gleaned exactlythe text you want me to add to the poll?

Cheers
Morag
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tczielke
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guardian

Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 939
Location: Illinois, USA

hughson wrote:
I don't know if you're aware, but the redistributable client (and in fact the normal SupportPac download and install clients) are separate for C and Java clients. So using the latest version of the C client has no bearing on which set of jars you use for another app. Also, if memory serves, the Java client has been redistributable for a while (although maybe not back as far as 1.5).


Would you be able to clarify what you mean by "(and in fact the normal SupportPac download and install clients) are separate for C and Java clients"? In the past (pre-8.0), when I wanted to install a client, I would download something like the 7.5.0.5 client package and install it, and it would include all the C runtime, Java classes, JRE, etc. together in that one install. I want to make sure I am not misunderstanding something there.

As far as the Java client being redistributable, I believe that started at 8.0 with the allclient jar, so it would just apply to Java 1.7. It looks like the 8.0.0.4 redistributable java zip file is mainly just a repackaging of that allclient jar that came out at 8.0.
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hughson
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1914
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand

My mistake, the SupportPac download for the clients is all of them - wonder why I thought they were separate?

But the redistributable packages are very definitely separate for C clients and Java clients.

I believe it has been supported to copy the jars for the Java client for a while, but I don't remember how long. I thought earlier than V8 though. Certainly Java users have been doing it for a long time with or without IBMs blessing!

Cheers
Morag
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tczielke
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guardian

Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 939
Location: Illinois, USA

It is worth noting for us administrators out there that the only way to have supported MQ Java/JMS jars is with the client installed, unless you are at 8.0 and are using the allclient jar. That is at least how I understand it.

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21376217
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hughson
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1914
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand

Thanks for finding the link - feels like it had been longer, but that's nice and definitive.
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